Question:
GMC Envoy - 3 mechanics are "stumped". Not sure if its transmission, dirty throttle body, air pump?
2015-12-06 10:44:31 UTC
2004 Envoy with 173,000 miles. Car feels like it isn t getting enough power sometimes when driving 55 -65 mph, sometimes also shakes when it feels like its not getting enough power. RMP s can fluctuate slightly also when this is happening. Doesn t happen when going up or down hills, just when on a flat road but always between 55 - 65 mph. Had trans fluid flushed 2 month ago and new fluid is black and smells kind of burnt which makes me think its a transmission issue but the mechanics said a code would come up to tell them that and no code comes up. Recently had a oxygen sensor and plugs replaced, which one shop would correct the issue but it didn t help. Any thoughts? Maybe it s just time for a new car...
Eleven answers:
?
2015-12-06 10:52:03 UTC
Probably time for a new car. Still . . .



While the black transmission fluid definitely indicates a problem, that wouldn't really account for the feeling that it's not getting enough power. (Still, mechanics who rely on codes often don't know what's really going on.)



The oxygen sensor and plugs were an OK guess, but that wouldn't occur just around 55-65 mph.



The speed issue does suggest a possible transmission problem. Still, I'd follow the possibilities from the fuel pump through the engine and drive train. So: Don't necessarily replace it, but get the fuel pump and fuel system checked out. That could account for the feeling of lack of power and the shaking. But--and I'm not enough of a car expert to suggest the next step--you have to look at whatever controls the flow of fuel and figure out what might be affecting it between 55-65 mph.



Good luck.
fire4511
2015-12-06 12:44:25 UTC
If the Transmission fluid is burnt, the issue is either in the transmission or the cooling system. Too many so called mechanics rely solely on the diagnostic codes, and do not use common sense. Have the transmission serviced again, making sure that the filter is replaced. You may want to have the old fluid checked for metal, using a magnet.



I would bet you have a transmission slipping problem and will need to have the unit rebuilt.
Pedal2TheMetal45
2015-12-07 11:36:21 UTC
HI, the transmission has nothing to do with the motor vibrating or missing or loss of power.. Now it the RPM's go up and the car/truck does not move with the RPM's then it is slipping .. If it is NOT slipping like I just said and the fluid is black and smells burnt then you did not get a full transmission flush... How much fluid did they put back in and did they change the transmission filter? If they did a full flush it would have taken 12 to 14 Qts of fluid. If they only put in 3 to 4 Qts then they just changed the fluid in the pan and left approximately 10 qts of dirty fluid in the transmission and did you no favor and not a proper flush.

good luck

tim
?
2015-12-07 06:29:14 UTC
You already know, and all 3 technicians would tell you.



A trans with burnt fluid, when it was recently flushed,

needs an overhaul or a replacement. even add a cooler.

Cooked fluid can build up in passages and cause fluid

circuit blockage, then you start losing functions or have adverse operation. even trans stuck in wrong gear, or loss of ranges, engagement of t-case in wrong gear may be indicated. Reading up on the many websites can attest to this without getting out of your chair.



Tune issues that do not produce codes can still need repair,

but component testing must be performed on all the components.

That takes time, and costs money.

When you have burned or discolored fluid, you dont keep driving.



If a car's owner has been advised about his trans issues,

you dont keep testing. he's showing over 170K, is he going to fully invest?

You advise further that if he wants to fix it, he make

a decision about his budget choices.



Comments about "mechanics" trusting codes for diagnosis only?

It is designed into the process. It is an indicator. The trans electronics are involved as the known need of correction is inspected, the code is not corroberating, so, does he want to rebuild ?

But you have an expensive issue that takes precedence.

Every tech I know, would be waiting for authorization on the trans issue

rather than picking fly poop out of the ashtray.

You would already know to re-eval after the obvious.

but have to authorize unguided diagnostic but without safe road testing.?

UNH- uhh

Your "mechanics" are trying not to waste your time and money.

You need transwork.

Not some guesswork about driveability or runability.
Robert M
2015-12-08 13:36:22 UTC
I am NOT STUMPED! start WITH A fuel filter change! most CARS INJECTED HAVE two FUEL LINES one feed the engine and the other one return unused fuel BACK to the tank. In this way the fuel is perpetually CLEANED THIS WAY THE FUEL IS perpetually cleaned< OVER AND OVER AGAIN!The fuel pressure regulator CAN ALSO BE LEAKING! easy test IS TO PULL THE vacuum FROM IT! If gas SPURTS OUT, it is bad! THEN USE Amsoil power foam to clean the THROTTLE BODY and the IDLE AIR CONTROL VALVE! Run the POWER FOAM through the PCV to clean teh muck and sludge and COKE from your RINGS and VALVE HEADS and LIFTERS! If you have been using EL CHEAPO OIL CHANGES: STOP NOE! Use MOBIL ONE 0W-30 to clean up the MUCK inside the engien and REMVOE the tar and wax other oils have made and left behind! REMOVE THE AC DELCO junker p[lugs and use BOSCH or DENSO IRIDIUM ONES to get up to 20% MORE POWER< ECONOMY and LOWER emissions! It will ALSO protect your CONVERTER and O2 sensors as well! THESE CHANGES will restore SHOWROOM HEALTH and even BETTER< since we NOW have EURO LOW SULFUR FUELS! IRIDIUM reacts with it, and gives MORE POWER with each stroke! TRANS FLUID CHANGES should ONLy be done at the DEALERSHIP as they give a WARRANTY with it and use the RIGHT FLUIDS FILTER and GASKET SETS! A FLUID CHANGE may have to be done THREE TIMES to remove the MUCK inside the trans! I USE BRAKE CLEANER on the valve body when the pan is DROPPED! GOOD LUCK and send me a CHECK for this info! BYE NOW!
?
2015-12-06 12:57:41 UTC
fluid burnt then you have a transmission problem. find local shop at ATRA.COM for road test and find another mechanic. sounds like you know more than he does. transmissions go bad and don't always trip the check engine light
FlagMichael
2015-12-06 10:57:40 UTC
No codes? That, plus the conditions where the symptoms appear, suggest something is holding the EGR valve open. Codes will complain if the flow is too low but rarely if it is too high. The way to test is to block the EGR and see if the symptoms continue. Nearly every other cause of engine misbehavior will include codes.
Gatsby216
2015-12-06 10:52:43 UTC
Are those GM certified mechanics? I would get it to a dealer and ask they put an experienced guy on it. You may have to leave it for a few days.

Check all vacuum lines, I would just replace them all, do them ONE at a time.

Check air intake hose for cracks. Clean MAF sensor with MAF cleaner, let if fully dry before driving, do NOT touch the sensor or brush it.

If overdue change the fuel filter.

Have the fuel pressure checked at the fuel rail.
Jonathan W
2015-12-06 12:39:49 UTC
Which engine? Some of the smaller GM utility vehicles had engine problems associated with the variable cam timing.
?
2015-12-06 12:13:57 UTC
If you go to gmtnation.com, you will surely find help with your issue. The site (forum) is run by people who own Envoys and Trailblazers and they know how to fix them.
?
2015-12-19 20:05:59 UTC
You replaced the trans fluid and it's black? An obvious trans problem..


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